Non-stop lightning with no thunder?

[Brian in Aberfeldy]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=534_1367878730

The commentary says that there is a tornado 30 miles to the NE of the chap taking the vid and that he can hear no thunder? I wonder why, perhaps a combination of distance and altitude?

brian
aberfeldy

[unknown]

Interestingly when I did some storm chasing in 2011 in Arizona I saw a
lot of major lightening strikes with no resultanting sound. It was
something I found quite odd at the time!

Simon

Post by Brian in Aberfeldy
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=534_1367878730
The commentary says that there is a tornado 30 miles to the NE of the
chap taking the vid and that he can hear no thunder? I wonder why,
perhaps a combination of distance and altitude?
brian
aberfeldy

[yttiw]

Post by Brian in Aberfeldy
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=534_1367878730
The commentary says that there is a tornado 30 miles to the NE of the
chap taking the vid and that he can hear no thunder? I wonder why,
perhaps a combination of distance and altitude?
brian
aberfeldy

I wondered if he had zoomed in on the storm with his video camera, and
being at night it gives the impression of being closer than it was?

Very spectacular footage, though, best viewed on mute once he starts
his "wow" commentary.

Apart from very special atmospheric occasions, I doubt it would be
possible to hear thunder from a storm more than 12-15 miles away.

[Vidcapper]

Post by yttiw
Apart from very special atmospheric occasions, I doubt it would be
possible to hear thunder from a storm more than 12-15 miles away.

About 6 miles is the furthest away I can usually hear thunder.

[yttiw]

Post by Vidcapper

Post by yttiw
Apart from very special atmospheric occasions, I doubt it would be
possible to hear thunder from a storm more than 12-15 miles away.

About 6 miles is the furthest away I can usually hear thunder.

Well, I am going to have to 'come clean' and reveal my Met Office use
of evidence for purely personal reasons.

My late mother in law used to own a superb 3 stoery house on the south
Kent coast. That area has a completely different climate from the rest
of the UK (but that is another thread altogether).

However, what a meteorologist does see is thundery cloud tops well to
the south i.e. over France on a regular basis.

It was not unusual to watch lightning well to the south from the top
bedroom window, on a hot summer night. In fact it became something of
a ritual.

One night I woke up about 2 a.m. and while lying in bed I began to hear
what appeared to be an occasional rumble of thunder. The individual
rumbles were a few minutes apart, but enough to encourage me to get out
of bed and look out of the south facing window. I soon began to see the
occasional lightning flash to the SSW and started to count the seconds.

Because the lightning was only about 3 or 4 minutes apart, there was no
doubt which thunder applied to which lightning, and the time lapse for
each was between 75 and 90 seconds.

I assumed that I was watching the decay of a storm over the north
French coast, but when I was back at work I looked at the archive
JASMINE (the rainfall radar of that time) display, and discovered that
the storms had actually developed near Beachy Head and were moving
southeast into the English Channel.

The amazing thing was how close my 75-90 second count seemed to be (5
seconds per mile) when measured to where the storms were at that time -
15 to 20 miles away.

There were no other convective elements in that region, at the time;
and In am not sure why that line of CB developed as and when it did.

[Mike McMillan]

Post by yttiw

Post by Vidcapper

Post by yttiw
Apart from very special atmospheric occasions, I doubt it would be
possible to hear thunder from a storm more than 12-15 miles away.

About 6 miles is the furthest away I can usually hear thunder.

Well, I am going to have to 'come clean' and reveal my Met Office use
of evidence for purely personal reasons.
My late mother in law used to own a superb 3 stoery house on the south
Kent coast. That area has a completely different climate from the rest
of the UK (but that is another thread altogether).
However, what a meteorologist does see is thundery cloud tops well to
the south i.e. over France on a regular basis.
It was not unusual to watch lightning well to the south from the top
bedroom window, on a hot summer night. In fact it became something of
a ritual.
One night I woke up about 2 a.m. and while lying in bed I began to hear
what appeared to be an occasional rumble of thunder. The individual
rumbles were a few minutes apart, but enough to encourage me to get out
of bed and look out of the south facing window. I soon began to see the
occasional lightning flash to the SSW and started to count the seconds.
Because the lightning was only about 3 or 4 minutes apart, there was no
doubt which thunder applied to which lightning, and the time lapse for
each was between 75 and 90 seconds.
I assumed that I was watching the decay of a storm over the north
French coast, but when I was back at work I looked at the archive
JASMINE (the rainfall radar of that time) display, and discovered that
the storms had actually developed near Beachy Head and were moving
southeast into the English Channel.
The amazing thing was how close my 75-90 second count seemed to be (5
seconds per mile) when measured to where the storms were at that time -
15 to 20 miles away.
There were no other convective elements in that region, at the time;
and In am not sure why that line of CB developed as and when it did.

Probably the sea breeze front from ealier in the day marching back out to sea over night. Seen it on a number of occasions.

[Martin Brown]

Post by Brian in Aberfeldy
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=534_1367878730
The commentary says that there is a tornado 30 miles to the NE of the chap taking the vid and that he can hear no thunder? I wonder why, perhaps a combination of distance and altitude?

He may think it is only 30 miles away but the lightning could easily be
50 miles away and high in the clouds as well. In desert storms on the
horizon you fairly often can see distant lightning that is too far away
to hear.

When it is nearly overhead you can definitely hear it. Actually this is
an interesting question is how long after a flash is the longest delay
that you can actually still hear the report unambiguously?

I have certainly observed 30s delays ~ 10km fairly often and 0s delay
(aka a direct hit on the building I was in three times)

I narrowly missed seeing a rare ball lightning event once too. I was in
the wrong place but several physicists and a frantic librarian saw it.

[Graham P Davis]

On Tue, 07 May 2013 11:05:20 +0100

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Brian in Aberfeldy
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=534_1367878730
The commentary says that there is a tornado 30 miles to the NE of
the chap taking the vid and that he can hear no thunder? I wonder
why, perhaps a combination of distance and altitude?

He may think it is only 30 miles away but the lightning could easily
be 50 miles away and high in the clouds as well. In desert storms on
the horizon you fairly often can see distant lightning that is too
far away to hear.

Also noticed this in the UK, mainly when I was in Suffolk and you'd see
the lightning from storms at sea.

Post by Martin Brown
When it is nearly overhead you can definitely hear it. Actually this
is an interesting question is how long after a flash is the longest
delay that you can actually still hear the report unambiguously?

I've had several experiences back home in Rushden when we've had
continuous lightning directly overhead and any thunder has been
infrequent and very faint, just a faint thud like someone dropping a
brick into the back of a lorry in the next street. The cloud (Ac)
appeared not too thick as it looked bright, as though the sun might
break through any minute.

Post by Martin Brown
I have certainly observed 30s delays ~ 10km fairly often and 0s delay
(aka a direct hit on the building I was in three times)

I got the 0s delay from a storm and a colleague got more than 30s from
the same event. This occurred during an April storm in Bracknell. There
were two lightning strikes with very loud bangs less than a second
later. For the first, I was still in the Met Office but for the second,
I was outside and walking my way home. At that point, I questioned the
wisdom of having my umbrella up and decided to get wet instead; I also
got to the Blue Lion in record time.

I later spoke to someone who'd been at Farnborough Met who had thought
he'd seen a flash out of the corner of his eye - it was a sunny day so
he wasn't sure - and started counting. He was almost giving up when he
heard the thunder; not only was the thunder loud enough to hear, the
office windows rattled. Soon after, he saw and heard the second one. He
counted to 44 and 45 for each one and I reckon this fits pretty closely
to timings in seconds, given the distance between Bracknell and
Farnborough. His first thought was that perhaps a couple of IRA bombs
had gone off in Bracknell.

The reason the shock-wave travelled so far was that the storm was
undercut by a cold ENE flow which gave good ducting conditions.

[Tudor Hughes]

Post by Graham P Davis
On Tue, 07 May 2013 11:05:20 +0100

Post by Martin Brown

Post by Brian in Aberfeldy
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=534_1367878730
The commentary says that there is a tornado 30 miles to the NE of
the chap taking the vid and that he can hear no thunder? I wonder
why, perhaps a combination of distance and altitude?

He may think it is only 30 miles away but the lightning could easily
be 50 miles away and high in the clouds as well. In desert storms on
the horizon you fairly often can see distant lightning that is too
far away to hear.

Also noticed this in the UK, mainly when I was in Suffolk and you'd see
the lightning from storms at sea.

Post by Martin Brown
When it is nearly overhead you can definitely hear it. Actually this
is an interesting question is how long after a flash is the longest
delay that you can actually still hear the report unambiguously?

I've had several experiences back home in Rushden when we've had
continuous lightning directly overhead and any thunder has been
infrequent and very faint, just a faint thud like someone dropping a
brick into the back of a lorry in the next street. The cloud (Ac)
appeared not too thick as it looked bright, as though the sun might
break through any minute.

Post by Martin Brown
I have certainly observed 30s delays ~ 10km fairly often and 0s delay
(aka a direct hit on the building I was in three times)

I got the 0s delay from a storm and a colleague got more than 30s from
the same event. This occurred during an April storm in Bracknell. There
were two lightning strikes with very loud bangs less than a second
later. For the first, I was still in the Met Office but for the second,
I was outside and walking my way home. At that point, I questioned the
wisdom of having my umbrella up and decided to get wet instead; I also
got to the Blue Lion in record time.
I later spoke to someone who'd been at Farnborough Met who had thought
he'd seen a flash out of the corner of his eye - it was a sunny day so
he wasn't sure - and started counting. He was almost giving up when he
heard the thunder; not only was the thunder loud enough to hear, the
office windows rattled. Soon after, he saw and heard the second one. He
counted to 44 and 45 for each one and I reckon this fits pretty closely
to timings in seconds, given the distance between Bracknell and
Farnborough. His first thought was that perhaps a couple of IRA bombs
had gone off in Bracknell.
The reason the shock-wave travelled so far was that the storm was
undercut by a cold ENE flow which gave good ducting conditions.
--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks.
Free office software:http://www.libreoffice.org/
http://youtu.be/YXox7vonfEg

An interesting observation. I have never been able to count
more that 25 seconds between a flash and a rumble so I'd say under
normal conditions the limit was about 5 miles. Obviously in this case
the conditions were quite unusual.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

[Bernard Burton]

Post by Brian in Aberfeldy
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=534_1367878730
The commentary says that there is a tornado 30 miles to the NE of the chap
taking the vid and that he can hear no thunder? I wonder why, perhaps a
combination of distance and altitude?
brian
aberfeldy

I have two points of interest concerning the propagation of thunder. The
first refers to an observation I noted in my diary when I lived in Vanuatu.
There was virtually no extraneous sound where I lived, being several miles
from Port Vila, the only town on the island, and at night, when the wind was
calm and the coconut palms were still, the silence was almost tangible. My
diary entry is for 15th April 1972, and refers to the late evening, when I
noted distant lightning, estimated >50 km, and abnormal propagation of
thunder from the same storm. My recollection is that the sound was not so
much audible as felt as a very low frequency sensation, giving the
impression that the ground was shaking, though I think this was a sensual
illusion.

The second point is an extract from the American Glossary of Meteorology.
Here it is stated that the range of audibility of thunder is typically about
10 miles (16km, 48 seconds), and is seldom heard further than 15 miles
(25km, 76 seconds ) from the lightning discharge, with 25 miles (40km, 121
seconds) an approximate upper limit. They also state that the pitch of
distant thunder is low due to the relatively strong attenuation of the
high-frequency components .